> contents / Dr. Klaus Groh - Germany / interview by Sztuka Fabryka (2000) /

1. How and when did you become involved in Mail-Art?

It was in the connection with my doctoral thesis. There I met in 1969 in the U.S.A. George Maciunas, Richard Kostelanetz, Anna Banana, Bill Gaglione, Irene Dogmatic and other, who tried to open art activities to the public outside the line (the normal way of art distribution) "artists-gallery-Museum-Consumer-etc ... I first used the German word ... art-destribution by "Huckepack" with the postal distribution system. Maciunas used the New York Telephone book, for receivers by chance. The "New York Correspondance school of art" was founded. It was written as the first mail-art-word: "New York- Correos- sponge- dance- school of art". In that line the words correspondence art, postaöl art, Mail-Art and the different translations arte correo, poczta sztuka, postkunst are mentioned. In my dissertation these art movement was mentioned in the connection of " alternative art activities". I mainly was searching the field of "DADA". After the Vietnam war a similar art movement was created in the U.S.A.. mainly in New York and San Francisco, with the same aims, that about 50 years ago the "classic" DaDa-artists in Switzerland founded, after the world war I: the total nonsense of war at all.

2. Where is Ray Johnson in this story, I was told that he founded the New-York Correspondance School in 1962.

Ray Johnson really was the first, who made public his idea and he founded the NYCS. You are right, his original text was : <"Our group is trying to create myths through the mail"> , that was 1962,and this school was changed in 1971 into "The Marcel Duchamp Club" not George Maciunas in 1969! He was together with Ken Friedman and other fluxus-people, who at the beginning of the correspondence-art-system used this idea as well.

3. Can you give us a short C.V. of your Mail-Art activities from the beginning till now?

The first publication with serious background was the anthology from Jean Marc Poinsot (France). This was the beginning of Mail-Art, as a separate important art movement all over the world. At first Mail-Art was very important for artists outside the political frame in depressed countries, eastern Europe and Latin America. Mail-Art was the only way to show (even in small sizes) art results from those countries, who are hidden by the political officials. Art in that countries most was just an illustration of the political systems. After the fall of the iron Curtin the image of Mail-Art completely changed. A lot of bullshit was sent out. For many participants ( NO ARTISTS in the serious sense!!") it was just important to see themselves in any documentation. So the result became to get serious bad und without any sense. The impossible inflation of mail art projects means also, that mail art started to become nothing!! The mail reason was, there was no qualified receiver ( JURY) who separated good from bad works. "All works are shown!! " "Everybody gets a documentation!"".....etc.

The change started, when artists began to select!! One important new aim was to remember the visual und concrete poetry. The sizes here are small, you also can send the works by mail. You can make the well known documentations and exhibitions. You don't need big space for store and show.

I think, we should try to rebirth the ancient important great field of visual & concrete poetry to involve serious Mail-artists in this activity. This art activity has a stabile history in the past and will open new fields in the future.

4. What are your specific activities within Mail-Art?

I try to use the postal system to distribute my V&C- (Mail-Art) poetry, to select with brain and thoughts for to bring back this art activity to a new expression for artists, who mainly are not interested in being present everywhere and who are not interested in making money.

5. You was also the editor of a Mail-Art newsletter called I.A.C. (International Artists Cooperation), can you tell us something more about this newsletter. How long did you made this newsletter and why did you do it?

I made these Newsletter from 1971 up to 1978, most of the time together with WALTER FOCKE, an artist who since 20 years is living in Mallorca/Spain. It was a DIN 4A-Page, folded, so that we could use 4 pages. Here we published all alternative art news and also the first invitations to mail-art projects. Really, this was the first mail-art newsletter, also the first wide publication of a collection of Mail-Art Invitations, worldwide. We made 52 different letters. I did it, because there was no other information about artistic activities, which are connected with the postal system and also with distribution of ideas connecting east and west art. I.A.C. was an idea from me to bring artists together with the aim of real personal COOPERATION. That means, and there were a lot of examples realized, that means: if you are on the way anywhere, you always could stay for one or maximum two nights in the home of the members. Sometime I had 5 artists here in my house, mostly very constructive meetings. Example: Marek Koniecsny (Warszawa), Ken Friedmann (San Diego, now Norway), Thomasz Schulz (Poland) and Richard Mead (California) were at the same time in my house. So, because I had a lot contacts with the eastern countries ( at that time it was not normal, to have that contacts!-) my home was a meeting place for artists from east and west. On the other side, when I was working at my doctoral thesis about "DaDa at the American west cost", I was four weeks in Canada and the USA and always I got hospitality with members of I.A.C. who promised to do the same. I think, it would be good, if this idea could get a rebirth-action today. The contacts with eastern artists I got when I was publishing an anthology with the title " Aktuelle Kunst in Osteuropa". In this book I presented artist from eastern Europe, who are not connected with the art officials in those countries. This anthology was published at the big DuMont-Verlag, Cologne. But this really very important publication was stopped after 3 month, because there were political problems , a long crazy story(!!!). You know, in that book only were artists published who were not connected with any official art institutions in any of the socialistic countries, and they were published here in the west(!). And in that time also DuMont-Cologne was in contact with official art-institutions of the DDR (eastern Germany) for to publish a book about "Neue Kunst in der DDR" ( or similar title., I do not remember exactly). And both was not possible.--a strange crazy story about an important art publication.

6. Us was told that you were also making hand carved stamps and that your interest goes to audio works. Can you tell us something more?

Concerning stamps: there was only one action at that time started by me. I invited artists to send their main-life-slogan, transformed on a stamp-bloc with fouir stamps. I invited about 100 artists. I got back nearly from all a positive reaction with original proposals for that stamp-collection-booklet. There were artists like Robert Filliou, Jochen Gerz, Ken Friedman, Ben Vautier and others. But this book never was made. I still have all the originals and perhaps I will find somebody, who will print that publication. I think, that would be a good work. Concerning my Audio cassettes: Yes, it was in the 70s, I invited sound artists to send examples of their works between 2 and 5 minutes. I collected all the material and when there are about 60 minutes complete, I made a new edition. The edition was called AEA ( Audio Edition Ammerland, Ammerland is the area, where I am living now). Together 15 tapes were produced. I do not have from all edition rest tapes; but I have all the originals, which I received from the artists, more than 100 tapes.

7. What happens with the Mail-Art you receive? Do you have a Mail-Art archive?

What happens with my Mail-Art pieces? Yes, I have them nearly completely: There is an archive and I would like to sell it. The archive has many many pieces. There are the following categories:

-mail art examples -Mail art texts -Rubber stamps -Mail art postcards -Mail art Catalogs - Pseudo postage stamps -Mail art invitations -Mail art documents -Envelopes -Mail art Posters -Mail art books -mail art CDs

These things are here, but - sorry - not in order. But, next time I will make a special archive of that. Actually I am working on an archive about works from artists from eastern European countries before 1989.